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"Lustful thoughts"

You know how christians "give testimony" every other day? About how Jesus saved them from lustful thoughts?

Well, today, my beloved brothers and sisters (yay, sisters!), I will give testimony to you.

Just joking, of course.

It just occurred to me. The more I move away from christianity, the less obsessive I am about sexuality. It is exactly the *opposite* of what christianity predicts. Satan didn't drive me into sexual obsession. If anything, satan freed me from it.

Not that I'm exactly celibate *gg* - but neither do I go out every night and fuck around - I just find that I really don't think about sex all that often. And when I do, it is a very happy, comforting thought. It's a kind of relaxed, layed-back attitude that is utterly full of joy, especially when I compare it to all the cramped-up, aching feelings I had back in my religious days.

Bottom line, you can't repress your sexuality. It's not even that you *shouldn't* do it - it's simply impossible. It doesn't work.

Of course, this may all just be due to the very simple process of getting older and wiser. :-) Anyway, it's quite enjoyable.

Now, I don't want to sound like I blame christianity, and only christianity, for a bad sex life. If anything, my sex life has suffered from my own insecurities. (Christianity didn't help, either, but that's a good topic for another posting.) Anyway, my point is simply that the christian myth of "teh evul relativist secular modernist lifestyle will make you a sex predator unless you give your life to teh jeesus" is turned on the head in my case. One case wrong - generalisation proven wrong. Just doesn't fit with the facts, sorry guys.
God is in the rain

Wake up!

Okay, so it's a very common thing in LiveJournalLand -- new community created, lots of interest in the first month or two, lots of activity, and then it quickly starts to slide away and before long there's no activity at all.  So it's been no different here, and I've certainly neglected my duties as mod by not coming to the table with more information, resources, etc.  But all that's about to change!  :)

I really believe in this community and from the overwhelmingly positive response the community received at the onset, I know many of you do as well.   So I would like to invite you all to tell a friend, online or otherwise about us.  Post an intro post if you've never done so.  If you've seen a film, documentary, or read a book lately that ought to be recommended here, please share!  

Lately I've run into a few people who I wanted to share this community with.  However, in the past I was very reluctant to tell anyone from the "real world" about this place, because I wanted it to be a magical online community with invisible people and no one I knew or had ever met in real life.  You all know that feeling, right?  Especially if anyone knows both me and my husband and I know they're reading posts like this one

But fuck it.

It's more important that I'm active in the community, trying to make it a better place, and that I keep making posts like it, because it's good for me and it's good for other people to read them and get that feeling that they're not the only one.  It's more important that people I know in "real life" are directed to the community if they have something to potentially contribute/receive from posting and reading.

So here I am.  I'm trying, and I'm going to keep trying.  It's hard for me, being all Scorpio and such, to be so exposed on a regular basis.  We scorp types would much rather just stay in the dark corner with our stingers ready.  So it takes some effort on my part.

Are you with me?

Virginity, or the lack thereof

 Hi there!

So, I gave up my virginity a couple weeks ago.  I've grown up in a Christian household where premarital sex is a definite no-no and my parents still think that I'm a virgin, and give me 'rules' about how to stay 'safe'.  Last year I flirted with the idea that premarital sex is okay, and my own religious views have changed a lot, but I came back to believing what they said because it was easier and safer.  I got into my first-ever relationship in March.  I went into the relationship somehow assuming that there would be no sex until marriage, and even when my bf asked, I said no.  He is experienced and didn't want to, but said he would wait for me.  Obviously, I gave in to my own very strong sexual desires.  I worked through everything and talked to some women I trust a lot, and felt very comfortable with everything.  And until this morning when I woke up, I had no regrets over the sex and sexual activities I've had now.  My boyfriend and I love each other very much, and he's been so gentle and wonderful with me.  Everything is great.  But for some reason this morning all I can think of is my Mum sitting in front of my and crying over her own past premarital sexual experiences and her deep regret.  Her saying how even if it's wonderful and glorious in the moment, you fall into a 'pit' afterwards.  I realized when she talked about this, that it didn't make sense because she was feeling guilt because of a religious background that prohibited what she had done, and other people I knew who did not have thos prohibitions in their lives were very happy that they had experienced sex before marriage, and even with many partners.

So... I guess what I'm asking is for some encouragement and thoughts, especially from someone who is married or in a long-term partner relationship who had sex before that.  I just need someone to tell me it's okay.


x-posted to vaginapagina
Ceci n'est pas une femme

Possibly triggering post.

So, first, an introduction to me. I was raised Roman Catholic. My father is a first-generation Roma immigrant to the United States from Hungary; I was born when he was fifty-two. My mother is second-generation Irish Catholic, and my relationship to sex and sexuality has always been defined through them, especially through my father.

My relationship to my father is complex, and I don't really know how to describe the ways in which I feel about him without getting into a treatise-length post. He was never very close to his children, and I think that my younger sister and I basically spent the vast majority of our lives resenting him, avoiding him, and walking on eggshells to prevent him from getting angry with us. His anger, at the time that I lived with him, seemed normal enough, but looking back on it, was riddled with incredible emotional abuse (who in the hell calls a six-year-old child a whore?) and occasional physical abuse (we were very frequently spanked, and those spankings occasionally crossed very definite lines between appropriate corporal punishment and physical abuse).

He often used scripture to justify his relationship to us, and this was by far the passage that I hated most in the bible, since he would use it to justify the way he acted:

Children, obey your parents (in the Lord), for this is right. "Honor your father and mother."

I don't really want to pass judgment on Christianity, although I am no longer Christian, since I know that the verse immediately following is an exhortation to parents to act with kindness towards their children; a passage which he never quoted.

So, enough context. I grew up in a sucky family, and it's probably neither much better nor much worse than what a lot of people have gone through.

But my relationship to sex was defined through that aspect of religion, and I am still very much suffering from the scars that that left on me. I grew up convinced that if a woman was raped, it was her fault, alone. And, at eighteen, I was sexually assaulted by my then-boyfriend; a person that my parents thought was a charming, nice, wonderful man. He proposed marriage to me the night after I was assaulted, in front of my expecting parents, and I felt like I had to say yes. Fortunately, the engagement was broken, but I have never really lived down the humiliation of that moment of my life.

After a lifetime of hearing that women who had sex outside of marriage were nothing but "social whores", that rape victims were to be blamed for wearing short skirts and make-up, and that sex outside of marriage was basically a sin tantamount to murder, I honestly felt that that horrible man was doing me a favor by consenting to take damaged goods. I don't feel that way anymore, but it left very, very deep emotional scars on me.

I have had a number of other, fairly fucking horrible experiences in my life. I have come out to my parents as an atheist and as bisexual (but not as genderqueer, although my issues with body dysphoria are probably the most traumatic aspect of my life in the present), which was, predictably, met with an outcry of "perversion" from my father. To this day, he will not acknowledge me as anything other than straight and female, but constantly rages about homosexuals as perverts, and every single fucking time, it cuts like a knife.

The atheism issue? Well, at least they acknowledge that it exists, even though they're convinced that it's just an intellectually dishonest phase.

My mother is gentler, but I have heard her talk about her gay friends as horrific sinners, and I know what she has said about the sinfulness of gays and lesbians doesn't exactly fill me with hope. And what horrifies me more are memories of me, as a child, faithfully parroting those things back to her, hoping to make her proud. I am angry about that, angry that as a ten-year-old child, I felt compelled to denounce and hate the person that I would be ten years later.

I'm still torn about everything that relates to sex. My current boyfriend is a kind, caring wonderful person, and having sex with him still triggers flashbacks to these feelings. Our sex life is, predictably enough, a disaster for it, since sex that I thought was great, fine and shiny just a week ago, is now a source of feelings of disgust and complete and utter humiliation.

I listened, today, to Bill Donohue's horrific response to the Irish Catholic Church sex scandal, and I could hear my father talking through his words.

And, coming from someone who isn't my dad, I could only think how horrible it was that anyone would let themselves be swayed by somone as vile as that, who thought that it didn't matter that priests were kissing and kicking little boys, because it wasn't technically rape, and that the real victim in the matter, was the Catholic Church. But, of course, I have been swayed by someone just like that, and my entire life is colored through those lenses of hatred.

And I'm not sure I'll ever figure out how to take them off.

One thing I've wondered about

Given how the purity craze loves to convince girls how their virginity is the only virtue they should worry about let alone the only one that will matter to your future husband, I wonder how does this effect the women who bought into it after they finally lose their virginity on their wedding night? After being so convinced it's the only thing they got going for them, do they worry that their husbands will think less of them now that it's gone? Or do some of them get hysterical during the sex because they're going to lose it? And how these groups still pressure women to remain pure after marriage, do they go through massive guilt if they get any pleasure or try to touch their husbands instead of Phyllis Schfly's advice of "lie there and expect some discomfort"? It's something I've wondered and since this is a group about reclaiming sexuality from fundamentalism, have any of you had these feelings?

Intro (Thanks for reading) and some ranting

  Thanks for creating a place like this.  Although I thankfully dodged the bullet of purity balls and silver rings because I was too old, but I also had my share of nightmare stories of sex.  It was always some nightmare scenario about how premarital sex would either lead to pregnancy, disease, and\or the person ending up miserable or their lives ruined.  I almost never heard of a positive scenario (I only remember one) with sex involved while I was shown graphic depictions a VDs and was told condoms had a 20% failure rate as a teenager.  And the secular half wasn't all that helpful with usually depicting single sexually active women as either lost souls looking and never having happines because they only use sex, bimbos, unlikeable self-absorbed bitches who use people, or sex-crazed types who'll sleep with anyone.  And scarey stories of how the first time is always a disapointment for females and TV showing that men should act like obnoxious frat boys when it comes to sex didn't help, either.

   Being a sexually\socially late bloomer (long story short it was a mix of autism and being around unkind guys as a teen) I didn't really have an interest in sex until my late teens\early 20s, but when I compared myself with the sterotypes I was taught as a teen I knew I didn't fit in with those sterotypes and there were people I knew we're like them either.  Though I learnt to embrace my inner perv and see sex as not a bad thing it was applying it to my own life that was the problem.  The fear remained and I ended up ruining some potiental relationships because I was so consumed with fear with what if he's the wrong man and I end up wasting my virginity on him?  What if I get a disease or pregnant?  I got sexually obsessed and frustraited for years until a friend showed me that sex is not something to be scared of, isn't a terrible experience for women (especally the first time), it was open to all people not just whores and pure as snow brides, is part of life, where I stood with my own preferences and sex drive, and all my time of looking for "the right guy" was a chase that I wouldn't win because it was an ideal. 

That's why it makes me sad that there are people out there that are so obsessed with purity and having it be the "right person" as well as trying to sanitize sexuality as some neatly packaged thing that can only be on certain sanitized terms.  Besides a real man loves his partner for them as a person not as a virgin, because virginity can be easily lost while kindness, intellegence, love and wit remain.  Nor is sex something that can be put in a neat package and while giving part of yourself to someone you care about is wonderful but putting such a concept on a pedistal can be a problem.  It's like how the usual Hollywood sex scenes never did anything for me (for a while I thought something was wrong with me) with the gyrating and keeping everything neat with little nudity and be all sanitized and perfect looking while Y Mama Tambien which had grunting, hard thrusting, lots of nudity on both sides and raw emmotion.  It's the honesty that needs to be shown about sex that's more beautiful.  Sorry if I ranted but I want to thank you for making this site where people like us can talk about this.

My First Post

Hello Everyone,

I am a 43 year old guy living in Florida, who has been married almost 20 years to a woman whom I love and we have a 14 year old daughter who is very bright and the top of her class academically.  I thought I would give my story and participate in this forum.

I had been a Christian from 1983 until 2005.  It affected my sex life in a way that I hope most never have to deal with.  My wife and I got married and did what most young married couples do, we had lots of sex, we bought a home, and cars, etc.  After 4 happy and normal years of marrige our daughter came along.  About 6 months after our daughter came along, my wife came down with an extremely severe case of Fibromyalgia.  The pain was so intense that she had considered suicide.  She tried drugs and therapies which didn't work.  The ONLY thing we found that is living in a very warm and humid climate.  With discovery, we uprooted our lives and moved to Florida.  It has helped but it is still a long ways from normal.  My wife and I have been unable to have sex but very rarely, sometimes going several months without.  After 10 years of being a good little Christian boy, I emotionally cracked.  We were of a Southern/Independent Fundamental Baptist background.  In other words, YOU STAY FAITHFUL TO YOUR SPOUSE NO MATTER WHAT UNTIL DEATH DO YOU PART!  I sought out counseling, first from clergy, which I only got a deer caught in the headlights look, next by a professional therapist who was secular.  The Secular therapist was at least nonjudgemental but really not much help.  After dealing with this for awhile, my wife, much to my suprise, told me that if it ever gets to bad for me as a man, and I did deal with the issue outside the marriage, she would not hold it against me but I was to NEVER tell her...she even told me to lie to her. 

That little event set me into a feeling of something I had never dealt with.  I tried to study about such situations in everything from the Bible and Christian literature to secular books and information.  There was not much other than the statistics that marriages where there is a long term chronic illness or disability will fail at an 85% rate.  After 4 years of this situation, I have become more comfortable with the idea she proposed but I still fight with the embedded feelings that Christianity pounds into you.  Anyway, other than the sex issue, we are very happy and enjoying life.  I think if I met someone who I felt comfortable with and they with me, I might have a friend outside the marriage.  I know this sounds terrible to some but I only ask you not to judge me until you have tried going multiple years with virtually no sex.  I mean, you don't get married to be celebate.  Anyway that is my little story.